Draft Chatter

Yes DH can be anyone Ti-Man ...

Rotoraysfan wrote:

quickster12 wrote:

no, i wasnt sniped, i was just away from the comp for a while but never went off the site, i'll make my pick in a minute.

Of course you made your pick the minute i stepped away from he comp too.

I applaud the lack of homerism - figured you had Johan locked & loaded! I also think he's in a good slot for Roto 5x5, too.

Im the self proclaimed least biased sports fan ever. Ive probably said that in like 10 different RW threads as well. lol
Usually, Id be all over Johan second round, hell last year i wanted to draft him 6th overall but he was taken ahead of me in both of my money leagues. But Howard's HR and RBI totals are just too much to pass up, except for the high K totals of the other two top SP's available, i can wait a tad bit on SP's.

So we're seeing the fruits of the markdash article on taking SP's early - I figured this league might reverse the *go bats all the way* in the first 2 rounds that we saw in other leagues - I agree it's the right premise for Roto to upscale the SP's just a notch more than H2H.

And BTW, quick, I've read your posts and remembered that - just that when you get a hometown guy *and* he's at a reasonable slot, harder to pass up. But I agree - the TBD guys will all tell you I put up a great show about taking David Price after trading up to get the #1 pick, only to announce I was taking Wieters a few days before the draft - figures that Gary will let Ray rape him repeatedly, but won't bite on the trade offers to get the #1 pick to snag Price, LOL.

Rotoraysfan wrote:

So we're seeing the fruits of the markdash article on taking SP's early - I figured this league might reverse the *go bats all the way* in the first 2 rounds that we saw in other leagues - I agree it's the right premise for Roto to upscale the SP's just a notch more than H2H.

Im actually going against my usual strategy by taking bats 1/2. My strategy usually is while everyone is going offense and splitting the talent, i'll stock up on the top SP's of the group and dominate 4 cats. But the draw lead me here and as long as Howard doesnt bat .250 or worse again, i'll be alright.

Clarification: I meant at what position(s) are DH eligible? I have been in leagues that allow a full time DH to be used at 1B.

UT only.

My bad...

Im a douchebag. Fell asleep in front of the TV while watching the WBC. Woke up 10 minutes ago and figured Id have some angry RotoWooders.

Give me 5-10 minutes to check out the picks up to this point.

I'm calling it a night. I'll check back in early tomorrow morning.

Rotoraysfan wrote:

So we're seeing the fruits of the markdash article on taking SP's early - I figured this league might reverse the *go bats all the way* in the first 2 rounds that we saw in other leagues - I agree it's the right premise for Roto to upscale the SP's just a notch more than H2H.

And BTW, quick, I've read your posts and remembered that - just that when you get a hometown guy *and* he's at a reasonable slot, harder to pass up. But I agree - the TBD guys will all tell you I put up a great show about taking David Price after trading up to get the #1 pick, only to announce I was taking Wieters a few days before the draft - figures that Gary will let Ray rape him repeatedly, but won't bite on the trade offers to get the #1 pick to snag Price, LOL.

Nah, not sure if this is a reference to my pick or not, but I was already targeting Lincecum in most leagues in the second round if I could get him before any of the articles were written advocating pitching early.

1. I think he will establish his own top tier this year.
2. I think he is a first rounder.
3. I'm not a big fan of the bats that are all going right here for whatever reason.

I did a draft last night and Lincecum went at #11. I had to "settle" for Howard at #18.

BTW- I was also looking at Howard here if he slipped. He was my Choice A. Guys aren't paying attention to the overall numbers on him and they are intriguing to anyone that is looking. His BABIP was 45 points lower than his career average. .289 last year, .334 career. He actually K'd 5% less last season cutting his percentage from 37% to 32% from 2007. His average should have been MUCH better than .251 considering how many HR's he hits and the low BABIP. There were also some funky things going on with a lower BB% and more grounders, but I still think the 45 point BABIP is a bit flukey.

If he would have had a career avg. BABIP, it would have resulted in 13.8 more hits. Round it to 14 and his average should have been .274 last year. I think this year the numbers regulate themselves and we see Howard at or around that .274 line.

I got some grief for taking him at 18 last night because he is not normally "my type" of guy since I usually opt to protect my average, but I think he was a steal there.

The Czar wrote:

Rotoraysfan wrote:

So we're seeing the fruits of the markdash article on taking SP's early - I figured this league might reverse the *go bats all the way* in the first 2 rounds that we saw in other leagues - I agree it's the right premise for Roto to upscale the SP's just a notch more than H2H.

And BTW, quick, I've read your posts and remembered that - just that when you get a hometown guy *and* he's at a reasonable slot, harder to pass up. But I agree - the TBD guys will all tell you I put up a great show about taking David Price after trading up to get the #1 pick, only to announce I was taking Wieters a few days before the draft - figures that Gary will let Ray rape him repeatedly, but won't bite on the trade offers to get the #1 pick to snag Price, LOL.

Nah, not sure if this is a reference to my pick or not, but I was already targeting Lincecum in most leagues in the second round if I could get him before any of the articles were written advocating pitching early.

1. I think he will establish his own top tier this year.
2. I think he is a first rounder.
3. I'm not a big fan of the bats that are all going right here for whatever reason.

I did a draft last night and Lincecum went at #11. I had to "settle" for Howard at #18.

BTW- I was also looking at Howard here if he slipped. He was my Choice A. Guys aren't paying attention to the overall numbers on him and they are intriguing to anyone that is looking. His BABIP was 45 points lower than his career average. .289 last year, .334 career. He actually K'd 5% less last season cutting his percentage from 37% to 32% from 2007. His average should have been MUCH better than .251 considering how many HR's he hits and the low BABIP. There were also some funky things going on with a lower BB% and more grounders, but I still think the 45 point BABIP is a bit flukey.

If he would have had a career avg. BABIP, it would have resulted in 13.8 more hits. Round it to 14 and his average should have been .274 last year. I think this year the numbers regulate themselves and we see Howard at or around that .274 line.

I got some grief for taking him at 18 last night because he is not normally "my type" of guy since I usually opt to protect my average, but I think he was a steal there.

Yea i was between Howard and Lince, and i knew that if i didnt take Lince you would take em. Then again, i think everyone knew that. I usualy have a better eye towards pitching, although im not thrilled that you're drafting behind me lol, but i felt that solidifying my offense would make an easier draft for me since i have a better chance of getting good pitchers later in the draft.

quickster12 wrote:

The Czar wrote:

Rotoraysfan wrote:

So we're seeing the fruits of the markdash article on taking SP's early - I figured this league might reverse the *go bats all the way* in the first 2 rounds that we saw in other leagues - I agree it's the right premise for Roto to upscale the SP's just a notch more than H2H.

And BTW, quick, I've read your posts and remembered that - just that when you get a hometown guy *and* he's at a reasonable slot, harder to pass up. But I agree - the TBD guys will all tell you I put up a great show about taking David Price after trading up to get the #1 pick, only to announce I was taking Wieters a few days before the draft - figures that Gary will let Ray rape him repeatedly, but won't bite on the trade offers to get the #1 pick to snag Price, LOL.

Nah, not sure if this is a reference to my pick or not, but I was already targeting Lincecum in most leagues in the second round if I could get him before any of the articles were written advocating pitching early.

1. I think he will establish his own top tier this year.
2. I think he is a first rounder.
3. I'm not a big fan of the bats that are all going right here for whatever reason.

I did a draft last night and Lincecum went at #11. I had to "settle" for Howard at #18.

BTW- I was also looking at Howard here if he slipped. He was my Choice A. Guys aren't paying attention to the overall numbers on him and they are intriguing to anyone that is looking. His BABIP was 45 points lower than his career average. .289 last year, .334 career. He actually K'd 5% less last season cutting his percentage from 37% to 32% from 2007. His average should have been MUCH better than .251 considering how many HR's he hits and the low BABIP. There were also some funky things going on with a lower BB% and more grounders, but I still think the 45 point BABIP is a bit flukey.

If he would have had a career avg. BABIP, it would have resulted in 13.8 more hits. Round it to 14 and his average should have been .274 last year. I think this year the numbers regulate themselves and we see Howard at or around that .274 line.

I got some grief for taking him at 18 last night because he is not normally "my type" of guy since I usually opt to protect my average, but I think he was a steal there.

Yea i was between Howard and Lince, and i knew that if i didnt take Lince you would take em. Then again, i think everyone knew that. I usualy have a better eye towards pitching, although im not thrilled that you're drafting behind me lol, but i felt that solidifying my offense would make an easier draft for me since i have a better chance of getting good pitchers later in the draft.

Good, I'll be picking up all the good hitters later in the draft then and we will stay out of eachother's way.

I would have had a tough time picking Lince over Howard for the reason's I listed. I didn't think he would drop to 18 in here.

I'm already telling Boz that we need to do a sidebet on Johan's value vs. Lince's value at the end of the season.

Last night when I was texting with Toes, he seemed pretty ripped. Im assuming it'll be a while until he wakes up and makes his pick.

I'll probably be on the production floor when Im OTC, so just send me a text.

I've never been a fan of early pitching. Arms are fragile and there's always ways to incorporate middle relievers into a strategy and make up any ratio differences as well as capitalize on high K/9 rates. Now Czar is clearly an intelligent and informed drafter, but most of the "amateurs" who draft a Lincecum early fall into the trap of thinking they have their anchor so they focus on playing catch up with their bats. By then, their #3, 4 and 5 starters become weak. So, while they are top heavy with Lincecum, I have a staff 5 or 6 deep with guys like Greinke and other sleepers with upside AND I have a better offense. That's why I never play in public leagues anymore. Too many dopes.

Rotoraysfan wrote:

So we're seeing the fruits of the markdash article on taking SP's early - I figured this league might reverse the *go bats all the way* in the first 2 rounds that we saw in other leagues - I agree it's the right premise for Roto to upscale the SP's just a notch more than H2H.

Quote :

not sure if this is a reference to my pick or not, but I was already targeting Lincecum in most leagues in the second round if I could get him before any of the articles were written advocating pitching early.

It's more of a reference to the fact that the big 3 went in the 2nd round (I figured CC was going shortly afterwards). I hold to the premise that savvy owners will simply pick where they find the most value, and the anti-arm philosophy that seems to be prevalent (and to which I agree to the same extent as Jon outlined), I figured we'd see a reversal to a more balanced approach this draft. Plus, the value with Lince at 15-20 is too much to pass up - I figured it was going to come down to Lince/Johan/Longoria/Howard at #19 after watching the first 13 picks play out.

After the next couple of rounds, I figure we'll start to see more divergence in opinions.

Zara wrote:

I've never been a fan of early pitching. Arms are fragile and there's always ways to incorporate middle relievers into a strategy and make up any ratio differences as well as capitalize on high K/9 rates. Now Czar is clearly an intelligent and informed drafter, but most of the "amateurs" who draft a Lincecum early fall into the trap of thinking they have their anchor so they focus on playing catch up with their bats. By then, their #3, 4 and 5 starters become weak. So, while they are top heavy with Lincecum, I have a staff 5 or 6 deep with guys like Greinke and other sleepers with upside AND I have a better offense. That's why I never play in public leagues anymore. Too many dopes.

This is true, but I have a tendency to get quality starters throughout AND add MR. I rarely lose the ratios or K's.

I tried the all hitter approach early last season and I ended up with Verlander, Smoltz, McGowen and Carmona in a league. Haha, needless to say I got slaughtered in there. In another league, I went back to my usual style and got Webb, Haren, etc. etc. and won by 20 points. Pitching is very volitile, which is exactly why I want to grab guys that I believe strongly in to hit on their projections.

The strategy of pitching early is pointless if you draft crap later.

The Czar wrote:

Zara wrote:

I've never been a fan of early pitching. Arms are fragile and there's always ways to incorporate middle relievers into a strategy and make up any ratio differences as well as capitalize on high K/9 rates. Now Czar is clearly an intelligent and informed drafter, but most of the "amateurs" who draft a Lincecum early fall into the trap of thinking they have their anchor so they focus on playing catch up with their bats. By then, their #3, 4 and 5 starters become weak. So, while they are top heavy with Lincecum, I have a staff 5 or 6 deep with guys like Greinke and other sleepers with upside AND I have a better offense. That's why I never play in public leagues anymore. Too many dopes.

This is true, but I have a tendency to get quality starters throughout AND add MR. I rarely lose the ratios or K's.

I tried the all hitter approach early last season and I ended up with Verlander, Smoltz, McGowen and Carmona in a league. Haha, needless to say I got slaughtered in there. In another league, I went back to my usual style and got Webb, Haren, etc. etc. and won by 20 points. Pitching is very volitile, which is exactly why I want to grab guys that I believe strongly in to hit on their projections.

The strategy of pitching early is pointless if you draft crap later.

I hear ya. In my 20 team league, which just completed the draft from our 7th season, I've NEVER drafted a pitcher before the 5th round. That's right, I never before drafted a pitcher within the top 80 selections and I've always done extremely well in pitching. Well, until last year when my top three starters were Liriano, McGowan and Snell. LOL. Bastards. This year my staff turned out to be Oswalt, Joba, Cueto, Sonnanstine, Zimmerman, Escobar, Purcey and McDonald. Relievers are Franklin, League, Bell and Capps. Really like my staff as I got GREAT value picking many of them late.

I took Roger Clemens in the 2nd and Charles Nagy in the 5th back in '93. I got Clemens' first professional losing season and about 2 wins out of Nagy before he got shelved for the year. I was jaded for years, and the only pitcher I've ever made a point of taking that early since then was the Minny-version of Johan, and I think I took him once in the 1st and once in the 2nd.

I've done one other draft this year, and wound up with Billingsley in the 4th (wanted Ellsbury but was given Bills), Shields in the 7th and Myers in the 12th.

That league starts twice as many hitters as pitchers, so the plan was to stock up on hitting early, and despite holding off, I think I did okay. That being said, my only closers are Gonzalez and Devine, so I'm still gonna need some help from the fantasy gods.

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth with that pick, Ray. He was one of about a half-dozen guys I thought about at #25.

I knew I was gonna hate that pick, and I hated it even more when Phillips got sniped away from me.

Timmah! wrote:

You pretty much took the words out of my mouth with that pick, Ray. He was one of about a half-dozen guys I thought about at #25.

I knew I was gonna hate that pick, and I hated it even more when Phillips got sniped away from me.

I was praying Lince would make it back to me, but knew he wouldn't. Like Larry said, the batters don't stand out from one another, otherwise I would have gone with my TBD strategy and taken 3 straight 1B lol. I like CC so much because of the amount of IP he is gonna throw, and I have no worries of all the IP on his arm already.

This is oddly enough the first year I've owned any of these 3 players I have so far. I think I had CC once when he was WW material and I snagged him then, woo-fuckin-hoo.



Dale, any and all players are eligible for the UT spot.

Well, I think one interesting twist for this draft is that many of the mid-to-late round targets are shared by many owners here, so it's not the usual value find in the middle of the draft you see in standard drafts. It will be interesting to see if the strategies that work well in mixed drafts will hold here, since the makeup of the league is so hardcore, and well versed in the RW discussions so far - the usual sleeper/post-hype value picks in other drafts are unlikely to get the same treatment here. On the other hand, there are a bunch of guys who I suspect will fall deeply, as the consensus amongst the hardcore group discussion is they are way overvalued.

Of course, it only takes 1 owner to disagree.

Yeah, I don't think there are any real sleepers here.

I think it's going to come down to just how much you want a guy and when you think the time is right.

I think this is the earliest I've ever taken a catcher, but this is also the first time I've been in a two-catcher league AND had to work the back-to-back situation. There wasn't anybody else I truly loved with the pick, so I bit the bullet.

I was looking at both McCann and Beltran, and probably would have taken them both over Markakis if they were there. He is no doubt the only catcher I would take at this point.

Now I'm happy I got that Ace, along with only 2 other, so hopefully the rest of you go on a pitching run

MustacheToes wrote:

I was looking at both McCann and Beltran, and probably would have taken them both over Markakis if they were there. He is no doubt the only catcher I would take at this point.

Now I'm happy I got that Ace, along with only 2 other, so hopefully the rest of you go on a pitching run

I wouldn't count on it quite yet, LOL.

Timmah! wrote:

Yeah, I don't think there are any real sleepers here.

I think it's going to come down to just how much you want a guy and when you think the time is right.

I think this is the earliest I've ever taken a catcher, but this is also the first time I've been in a two-catcher league AND had to work the back-to-back situation. There wasn't anybody else I truly loved with the pick, so I bit the bullet.

Kind of like that guy that slipped to 186 the other night in my draft.

Markdash thought it was hilarious that I drafted him after railing on him in the thread, but hell, at 186, I love that pick.

I wouldn't even dare think of touching that guy at 86 though where he is currently ranked.

Funboystun has him at 66.

I always find it funny when things like that happen. I drafted Hank Blalock in my 20 team league this year. I've railed on the guy in the past. Someone called me on it. Sure, when he was a 4th rounder in years past, I railed you for it. Now that I got him in the 9th round of a 20 team league, it's decent value. People just don't get it.

And someone needs to pry Vriez's pick from his cold, dead hand.